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Strange's Mapping Faqs And Q+A Thread Want to know something about mapping? Read here!

#1 User is offline   strangemodule Icon

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Posted June 03 2010 - 09:33 PM

Hello all. Lately a lot of people seem to have picked up mapping for one reason or another, and quite a few people have asked me how to get started. They also sometimes ask me various design and technical questions. This is what this thread is for: getting your feet wet in mapping, and for asking anything you would like to know about mapping. I consider myself decent at making maps, so I should be able to help you with anything you wish to ask.

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THREE-STEP PROCESS: WHAT MAP COMPILES CONSIST OF
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If I have any more information to put up in the original post here, I will do so later. If you guys have any mapping questions, please post them! Answering your questions is what this thread is for.
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#2 User is offline   SirKillingston Icon

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Posted June 03 2010 - 09:36 PM

Thanks strange.

This is pretty useful.
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Posted June 03 2010 - 09:45 PM

Thumbs up, man, very good.
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Posted June 04 2010 - 10:53 PM

Thank you Strange, this is much needed.
(And should probably save you many, many questions)
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Posted June 05 2010 - 12:35 AM

I gotta question: faq faq faq faq faq fag fap fap fap :P

(FAQ undercased it just so funny looking)
(This post does not reference to OrangeL's views on anybody in anyway. It's a joke, people)
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Posted June 05 2010 - 01:09 AM

For the more advanced topics:




I've always loved map making, from Re-volt on the N64, to Stronghold for the PC, to ATV Offroad on the PS2, to all those little flash games that let you make levels and many more; I've spent at least 10 hours in the mapmaker of every game I've enjoyed.
Except Hammer.
That thing is just beyond me at this point. I've got someone who's going to show me the basics so I can help him out with his map over the summer but once I'm competent enough, I might try a map of my own. I'm glad you've posted this here as I'll probably use it a lot then. ^_^
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Posted June 05 2010 - 02:03 AM

View PostSmyther, on June 04 2010 - 06:09 PM, said:

For the more advanced topics:




I've always loved map making, from Re-volt on the N64, to Stronghold for the PC, to ATV Offroad on the PS2, to all those little flash games that let you make levels and many more; I've spent at least 10 hours in the mapmaker of every game I've enjoyed.
Except Hammer.
That thing is just beyond me at this point. I've got someone who's going to show me the basics so I can help him out with his map over the summer but once I'm competent enough, I might try a map of my own. I'm glad you've posted this here as I'll probably use it a lot then. ^_^

Hammer is really easy to get started with once you get the basics down. I recommend just opening it up sometime and start fiddling with all the tools 'n such.
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#8 User is offline   strangemodule Icon

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Posted June 05 2010 - 02:53 AM

Indeed, and I can help if you need it, just leave a question in this thread or message me on steam. Believe it or not, level design tends to focus more on the "Why?" than on the "How?". Once your familiarize yourself with all the tools, you will find the real challenge is making a map suitable for gameplay. Arguably TF2 is one of the hardest games to map for since you have to cater for 9 classes whose mobility rules, comfortable engagement zones (whether it be close, medium, or long range), and their needs for things like cover and pickups are all different. However, it can be a very rewarding experience, so don't give up!
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Posted June 05 2010 - 03:18 AM

Just what I need to get started. Strangemodule is credit to team!

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Posted June 05 2010 - 03:48 AM

Anything on optimization? Its being a pain right now to make sure area portals arent leaking and what not.

Also is it okay for world brushes to intersect with func_detail brushes?
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Posted June 05 2010 - 03:50 AM

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#12 User is offline   strangemodule Icon

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Posted June 05 2010 - 03:57 AM

View PostiMan7, on June 04 2010 - 08:48 PM, said:

Anything on optimization? Its being a pain right now to make sure area portals arent leaking and what not.


Depends on what kind of optimization. Talking to you before, I assume you are talking about making VVIS finish faster. I will post a simple guide to VBSP, VVIS, and VRAD later, but for now, I will point out simple ways to make VVIS go faster:

1)Func_detail anything that doesn't seal in the world!
2)Go to Map -> Load Portal File to see how your map is being cut into Visleafs (more on that in my future guide). The more "messy" your visleafs look (look for a bunch clumped into small spaces or just looking disorganized), the long it will take VVIS to finish.
3)Func_Viscluster areas that are open but have a bunch of visleafs; for example, if you see a bunch of visleafs in one square area, use func_viscluster to make them into one big visleaf (or a few, but cutting them down is good too). Make sure NOT to run a func_viscluster over water!
4)Hint brushes suggest to VVIS how to cut your map into visleafs; "suggest" meaning that if a hint brush causes errors or doesn't work properly, VVIS will simply ignore it instead of crashing your compiler.

View PostiMan7, on June 04 2010 - 08:48 PM, said:

Also is it okay for world brushes to intersect with func_detail brushes?


I have yet to have a problem with that. Normally world brushes intersecting with other world brushes *can* cause some issues, things intersecting with func_detail brushes haven't caused me trouble.
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#13 User is offline   korushi Icon

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Posted June 05 2010 - 04:24 AM

View PostiMan7, on June 04 2010 - 08:48 PM, said:

Anything on optimization? Its being a pain right now to make sure area portals arent leaking and what not.

Also is it okay for world brushes to intersect with func_detail brushes?


Advanced optimization requires use of func_areaportal. Read that page through carefully, if used incorrectly Areaportals can cause errors.
Simple things you have to remember about Areaportals:
  • Place them in doorways and windows of a building
  • Must seal off the building (You cannot get in or out of that building without going through an areaportal)


And most importantly,


View Poststrangemodule, on June 04 2010 - 08:57 PM, said:

1)Func_detail anything that doesn't seal in the world!


Don't do that.
I've seen this problem with many, MANY mappers, and lived through it myself for quite awhile.
Areaportals cannot be sealed with func_detail brushes. I know the dev wiki says turning things into detail entities is great for optimization, and it is, but not everything should be made into one. The fps gain from proper use of areaportals will far outway the gain from simply making everything into details. Detail should be used for this like rafters, railings, or window frames.

When sealing the skybox or an areaportal, I recommend going into the Visgroup pannel* and unselect Func Detail.
This hides all func_detail. Click it again to draw them. Once you're map starts to get very complex, you may want to hide certail brushes or props to make better use of the 2D views. Hidden objects are not compiled, so you can also use this to compile only specific parts of your map for testing.
Now see if you can spot a way in or out.


Oh, and the simplest form of optimization is simply putting the nodraw texture on any brush face that cannot be seen my a player ingame. Doing this will speed up compile time and map preformance. 9WHy waste time figuring how a shadow casts across a surface which will never be seen?)

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#14 User is offline   strangemodule Icon

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Posted June 05 2010 - 04:29 AM

I think he was talking about making VVIS go faster, but Areaportals are pretty much essential for ingame performance. Don't forget the mostly-ignored occluder, it can help make props not in sight not rendered where just using areaportals would still keep them mostly rendered.
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#15 User is offline   korushi Icon

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Posted June 05 2010 - 04:37 AM

View Poststrangemodule, on June 04 2010 - 09:29 PM, said:

I think he was talking about making VVIS go faster, but Areaportals are pretty much essential for ingame performance. Don't forget the mostly-ignored occluder, it can help make props not in sight not rendered where just using areaportals would still keep them mostly rendered.

Occluder can be very useful, but it does take a lot of memory so use it sparingly. It's best used to block off areas filled with lots of props, or very detailed models. (Like infront of a respawn room, so it hides all of the player models inside it.)

EDIT: For anything short of releases, just do fast compiles. It'll be quicker, and alot easier on your pc. The lighting may not look as right, but for structure testing and just I-want-to-see-this-in-game moments it's useful.
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#16 User is offline   strangemodule Icon

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Posted June 05 2010 - 04:46 AM

View Postkorushi, on June 04 2010 - 09:37 PM, said:

EDIT: For anything short of releases, just do fast compiles. It'll be quicker, and alot easier on your pc. The lighting may not look as right, but for structure testing and just I-want-to-see-this-in-game moments it's useful.


I heard of using the cordon tool to just compile specific parts of your map, but I have yet to use it and looks a bit complicated. Do you know anything about it?
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#17 User is offline   Jason Icon

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Posted June 05 2010 - 04:47 AM

it's basically you make a square around everything you want to test, and it only compiles what's in the cordon tool, and the cordon becomes a skybox

#18 User is offline   strangemodule Icon

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Posted June 05 2010 - 04:49 AM

Well...that's helpful! Wish I knew about it before.
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#19 User is offline   SirKillingston Icon

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Posted July 20 2010 - 10:12 PM

Probably going to sound dumb for asking this, but how do I add particles to the map? I want to add the water drip like they have in the intel room on ctf_sawmill, but I have no idea how.
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#20 User is offline   strangemodule Icon

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Posted July 20 2010 - 10:38 PM

View PostSirKillingston, on July 20 2010 - 03:12 PM, said:

Probably going to sound dumb for asking this, but how do I add particles to the map? I want to add the water drip like they have in the intel room on ctf_sawmill, but I have no idea how.


I honestly don't know a lot about particles, I suggest just opening up Valve maps when they are used, and reading this page.
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