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New End-Round Setup Opinions Thread (Poll Over)


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Poll: New End-Round Setup Opinions Thread (Poll Over) (85 member(s) have cast votes)

Keep Melee Endrounds?

  1. Yes! (72 votes [84.71%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 84.71%

  2. No! (13 votes [15.29%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 15.29%

Exceptions for melee endrounds?

  1. Taunkill Only - Let's just keep it to weapons that have a taunt kill. (34 votes [40.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 40.00%

  2. More Exceptions - We only wanted this to stop the spam. Let us use less spammy weaponry too. (17 votes [20.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 20.00%

  3. No Exceptions - There shouldn't be any. It's supposed to be melee only (34 votes [40.00%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 40.00%

Suicide Delays?

  1. Always - What's wrong with waiting a few seconds to die? It doesn't interfere with anything else. I want it on all the time. (15 votes [17.65%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 17.65%

  2. Endround only - It bothers me when someone explodes when I'm about to taunt kill someone during end rounds. Only have it on then. (26 votes [30.59%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 30.59%

  3. Never - This is killing my fun. I like exploding right when I want to. (44 votes [51.76%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 51.76%

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#1 Neh

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Posted July 28 2012 - 01:18 PM

Looks like a general consensus shows that people like melee end-rounds overall, but are split on the idea of allowing exceptions. The only reason for the exceptions proposed was to allow the team that lost the round access to their taunt kill slots for some form of counterattack, and that option seems to be the clear winner here if you include the people who want that plus more. However, we will re-evaluate this if we manage to get the plugin to only apply to the winning team.
The suicide intercept plugin was an aggressive solution to a minor problem, and after seeing the reaction to it, I won't be doing anything like that again without seeing what the community thinks of the idea first. It has been completely disabled.

(tl;dr Melee mode on, Tauntkill weapons on, No explode delay)

Thank you to everyone that voted. Happy capping!

(original post)
We're trying out something new, and I need your thoughts on it. Give it some time to try out the changes to get a better opinion on it.

We're back to using the Melee plugin for endround time, but with a twist. As suggested in the previous thread, I've managed to add exceptions for weapons that have a taunt kill. This still applies to both teams, however, it brought up an interesting idea: allowing a variety of weapons that are not spammable for the attackers to use as well.

As it is right now, while melee endround is active, all pyro secondaries, the huntsman, and the frontier justice are allowed. This lets those three classes have their tauntkills back that were previously taken away by the plugin. It also allows those weapons to be used by the attackers to hunt down the losing team. Should this selection stay as it is, expand to allow other weapons that are not spammy, or should we go back to pure melee-only? (Question 2)

--------

Another new thing that a lot of you have noticed, was the Suicide Intercept plugin added a few days ago. This was added to stop players from killing themselves before a tauntkill could connect. As we all know, a tauntkill is pretty rare, and those times where you manage to get one feel satisfying, especially when they are accompanied by a fun sound clip. Players exploding themselves robs others of this reward, and is a really dick move. I've tried to make it as unobtrusive as possible, but as long as people do this, I feel it needs to stay, as do other admins.

I've cut the suicide delay down to only being active during endrounds. Knowing that the only reason it is in place is to stop others from robbing players the satisfaction of tauntkills, do you feel that a 5 second delay on explode and kill commands should be in place always, only during endround, or not at all? (Question 3)

Edited by Neh, August 03 2012 - 12:03 PM.


#2 kingddd

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Posted July 28 2012 - 01:37 PM

Suicide delays in my opinion should be in during the actual round. During humiliation end-round I don't mind having no suicide delays. That's just me though.

Edited by kingddd, July 28 2012 - 01:38 PM.

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#3 Neh

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Posted July 28 2012 - 01:43 PM

Suicide delays in my opinion should be in during the actual round. During humiliation end-round I don't mind having no suicide delays. That's just me though.

In that case, you could vote for always and note it in your post like you just did.
Same for anyone else who feels slightly different. Vote the way that seems closest to how you want it, then elaborate in your post.

Groups that can be trusted not to be dicks can be granted immunity from the delays. Right now all admins are immune from the delay that is only active during endrounds.

#4 William Dogood

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Posted July 28 2012 - 01:56 PM

Having suicide delay end round only pretty much defeats the purpose of having it.

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#5 FlamingDonut141

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Posted July 28 2012 - 02:05 PM

I don't see any satisfaction in getting taunt kills during endround when one team is helpless.

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#6 Panda-Dog

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Posted July 28 2012 - 02:06 PM

For the suicide delay I do not think there can be a middle ground compromise that we can do. We either need to choose to have a delay on at all times or no delay at all, even though it is a dick move for someone to kill themselves if they got caught in a Huntsman taunt kill or something I really do not see this happen enough to warrant a overhaul to prevent people from killing themselves on the spot.

As for keeping the endround to melee only/taunt kill weapons only idea I love, to many times we only need one person to completely spam the crap out of everyone on the server because they just sit as a heavy at the resupply locker.
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#7 Neh

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Posted July 28 2012 - 02:32 PM

I don't see any satisfaction in getting taunt kills during endround when one team is helpless.

The tauntkills are for the helpless team's use, not the attackers. Until I can get a plugin to detect the appropriate team to lock out, it gives them to everyone.

As for keeping the endround to melee only/taunt kill weapons only idea I love, to many times we only need one person to completely spam the crap out of everyone on the server because they just sit as a heavy at the resupply locker.


I can expand the weapons allowed to other, lighter weaponry, but completely block all miniguns, flamethrowers, explosives, etc. That was the intention of the more exceptions option.

#8 HatTheTurtle

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Posted July 28 2012 - 02:59 PM

I'd be down for melee only end-rounds, but it'd be cool to have the jumpers allowed as well. I don't usually participate in the end round slaughter, so it'd be nice to have something else to do during those 30 seconds. Regarding the delayed suicide, I know some people have had some issues with suiciding during humiliating, only to have it be delayed into the next round's startup.

#9 Cedarbox

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Posted July 28 2012 - 03:29 PM

The suicide delay is really awful, especially during endround. If you try to explode during the end of the round, you're basically penalized for the next round because usually by the time the delay is over, the next round has started and it kills you then (and getting the chat window to work -and- type 'cancel' fast enough is impossible). Then there's the respawn time and, if you're an important class, it's just changed the balance of the game.

Really not cool.

Besides, the regulars here aren't the sore sport types that suicide to avoid kills. We want to explode when we high five!

Also, melee only during endround is great. Melee only (but with engie buildings and disabled sentries) during waiting for players would be pretty cool too. It gets frustrating to be killed fifty times in ten seconds because the team's heavy figured out where your spawn points are. Maybe a slight exaggeration, but I'm sure you get the point.

Edited by Cedarbox, July 28 2012 - 03:31 PM.

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#10 Neh

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Posted July 28 2012 - 03:40 PM

[...] it'd be cool to have the jumpers allowed as well.

We'll always allow jumpers and other non-damaging items.

Besides, the regulars here aren't the sore sport types that suicide to avoid kills.

The reason I installed the plugin was due to having this happen to me multiple times a session over the course of several days. It does look like it's a pretty unpopular solution though.

#11 Cornish Game Hen

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Posted July 28 2012 - 04:11 PM

About the suicide delay, I realise that I was responsible for being a bit of a dick in the past regarding robbing someone of a taunt kill, and that it's best to let the person have a laugh at your expense and just get over it. I won't be pulling that again, and I'm sure that the majority of the community will feel and act the same way. Especially with the issue being brought up here. Sometimes it's easy to forget that you're pulling a dick move.

But a lot of people also like to mess around, me included. like during high five taunts as pointed out before, and generally any time dropping dead or exploding into a bloody mess will be seen as humourous or not detrimental to gameplay. I know these times could be rare but when I played a few days ago it was brought up a few times in the chat and voice chat, being seen as a bit of an obstacle.

#12 Cloud

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Posted July 28 2012 - 09:30 PM

Is there any way to have the suicide delay off during end round, and set up time, but turn it on for the actual round?

The only real reason you should be killing yourself in an actual round is because you're stuck anyway, the delay makes the most sense there. End round and setup is typically full of people messing around so it'd belong at those times.

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#13 Neh

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Posted July 28 2012 - 11:20 PM

Is there any way to have the suicide delay off during end round, and set up time, but turn it on for the actual round?

I can reverse it easily. I just hadn't thought of doing that when I was making the poll. I'm not going to edit it now though, it will throw away all of the votes already cast.

#14 CharlieTheTurtle

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Posted July 29 2012 - 02:06 AM

that killing yourself while being taunt killed is a dick move doesn't mean it needs to be fixed
its like not being allowed to build all your engie stuff at the spawn. I don't think the restriction makes the game better
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#15 Cedarbox

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Posted July 29 2012 - 12:57 PM

that killing yourself while being taunt killed is a dick move doesn't mean it needs to be fixed
its like not being allowed to build all your engie stuff at the spawn. I don't think the restriction makes the game better

Yeah, there's always gonna be dick moves that take some of the fun away. Most of them, especially among regulars, don't happen enough to warrant extreme measures.

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#16 Neh

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Posted July 29 2012 - 02:01 PM

Yeah, there's always gonna be dick moves that take some of the fun away. Most of them, especially among regulars, don't happen enough to warrant extreme measures.

I'd say it's pretty clear that the suicide intercept idea was not my best. I saw it while I was browsing plugins and remembered my annoyance of a couple weeks ago, so I figured it was worth trying.
Well we tried it, it caused more problems than it fixed. Lesson learned. Consider it removed.


As for the weapon exceptions, I'm pretty sure most of the people voting for that didn't bother to read the post, or read the previous thread about why we have melee endrounds to begin with. To make it clear, having tauntkill weapons unrestricted means the winning team can use them too, so shotguns, huntsman, and flare guns of all types are usable during that time. This gives an unfair advantage to Engineers, Snipers, Soldiers, and especially Pyros on the winning team. That is why I wanted to allow more weapons while keeping all miniguns, flamethrowers, explosives, and rapid-fire guns locked out.

So long as people understand that, I'll do as the poll suggests.

#17 Toamto

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Posted July 31 2012 - 09:17 AM

What precisely does "Less-spammy weaponry" entail? Does it means low/no-damage weapons? (though, if that's the case, why would they be restricted at all...)

#18 kingddd

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Posted July 31 2012 - 09:30 AM

What precisely does "Less-spammy weaponry" entail? Does it means low/no-damage weapons? (though, if that's the case, why would they be restricted at all...)

Spammy weapons like Rocket Launchers, Flamethrowers, Miniguns, Sticky Bomb, Grenade Launcher etc.

The less spammy weapons like melees and huntsmans etc are not restricted.

Edited by kingddd, July 31 2012 - 09:31 AM.

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#19 Toamto

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Posted July 31 2012 - 10:26 AM

Spammy weapons like Rocket Launchers, Flamethrowers, Miniguns, Sticky Bomb, Grenade Launcher etc.

The less spammy weapons like melees and huntsmans etc are not restricted.

The reason I asked was mainly questions about hitscan weapons, since they seem to be the worst offenders next to explosives.

Anyone that can aim decently with a pistol or revolver would be able to mow down a few people in one clip, yet shotguns are hands-down spammy but the engineer's frontier justice and the pyro's secondaries contain tauntkills, therefore allowed if those are equipped. (as Neh pointed out,) so would those secondaries be included or discluded in the banned weapons list? Then there's sniper rifles, would they be considered as spammable if they take 1.5 seconds to reload?

I also wondered about the Syringe gun, since it's weak during gameplay but powerful during round-end.

#20 Neh

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Posted July 31 2012 - 01:49 PM

The reason I asked was mainly questions about hitscan weapons, since they seem to be the worst offenders next to explosives.

Anyone that can aim decently with a pistol or revolver would be able to mow down a few people in one clip, yet shotguns are hands-down spammy but the engineer's frontier justice and the pyro's secondaries contain tauntkills, therefore allowed if those are equipped. (as Neh pointed out,) so would those secondaries be included or discluded in the banned weapons list? Then there's sniper rifles, would they be considered as spammable if they take 1.5 seconds to reload?

I also wondered about the Syringe gun, since it's weak during gameplay but powerful during round-end.

The list of allowed weapons would require some extra thought, but all of your concerns are things I am concerned about too. We'd have to try to allow enough weaponry so that most classes could have something ranged, while not going overboard. The only reason for expanding the list of allowed weapons is to make more classes have weapons outside of Pyro during the end round, while allowing the losing team access to their tauntkills.

This is what I had in mind, though this is completely flexible and open for comments. This is mostly based on rate of fire.
Soldier, Pyro, and Heavy would be given all secondaries. Medic would be allowed Crossbow only. Sniper and Engineer would get to keep primaries, but no pistol/SMG. Demo, Scout, and Spy would get nothing but melee+Jumper

I still think this type of option would be the best compromise until I can get a plugin to only affect the winning team with melee only status.

edit-PS:
Suicide Intercept has been disabled completely for a while now, but if I edit the poll all votes are reset. I'm also going to be interpreting the poll as though half of the voters haven't read the thread or misunderstood the responses, since it's on the front page.

Edited by Neh, July 31 2012 - 01:58 PM.



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